WHAT IS CONTEMPORARY ART AT BARD?

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A conversation between Clark Solack and K8 Hardy about mud wrestling at Bard. [posted by Clark Solack]

Clark Solack: Can you tell me a little bit about where the idea of having a mud wrestling event came from?

K8 Hardy: I had mud wrestling events in brooklyn on the 4th of july for 3 years prior to the one at Bard.

CS: Are you into wrestling?

KH: Not particularly, but my roommate at the time, Tara Mateik, was very into wrestling. We were the few who had a backyard in brooklyn and wanted to do something besides just barbecuing and drinking on this patriotic day. (July 4^th). The first one was organized by me, tara mateik, and josh thorson. We are all primarily video artists.

Tara now also does a lot of performance. Eventually they moved out and I continued the tradition. We burned an american flag to kick off the first mud wrestling event.

The 4^th is a great day that most people have free but by simply partying it’s almost as if you are being patriotic. It was the first 4th of july after 9/11. We all felt conflicted and mud wrestling seemed perfect for the day. It’s a good way to express ambivalence about nationalism.

CS: Do you find any connection to the lucha libre? Being from texas and all? But as an illegitimate response to it maybe?

KH: What’s lucha libre?

CS: The masked mexican wrestler culture.

KH: Uh, no not really. It’s just dirty and physical and aggressive and exciting, plus it’s a good way to touch other people.

CS: (Laughing)

KH: Plus it’s gross and dirty and not proper. Not that it was a reactive desire.

It’s active, pro-active.

CS: I’ve seen some photographic documentation of the events, particularly the ones by Cass Bird. There is a strong sense of dirty, half-naked bodies in action. There’s a sense of connectivity among the wrestlers.

KH: I always reffereed. I had very strict rules so that no one got hurt, more strict than wrestling sport rules. Yeah it’s amazing, i mean the energy totally shifts.

No one cares about what they have on, everyone is dirty. It’s incredibly equalizing

and especially since winning was not the point. After the first one, I realized how amazing it was to have a social event that forced everyone to get loose

and connect. No one looks cool and everyone is dirty; even if don’t wrestle you get splashed. People really let loose.

CS: So how did the shift occur when the event moved from back-yard Brooklyn to Bard main campus?

KH: Well for one, I announced that costumes were required in order to wrestle.

That’s kinda obvious—if you want to wrestle you have to wear something you don’t mind ruining. It was fun to get people to dress up to destroy their clothes.

The Bard event was also different because it wasn’t as queer. Although a lot of gays still came up from the city because it’s such a beloved tradition, so the tone was still pretty gay. Ei (Arakawa) and I kicked it off by doing a dance/performance around the pit as a hetero-christian couple in heat. I had a floral dress on that was pre-cut so Ei could tear it off. I befriended the grounds crew and got a guy to come over with his tractor to dig the pit.

CS: Something about this ritual you two performed reminds me a little bit about Collier Shore’s project on high school wrestlers. There’s so much pent-up homoerotic tension involved. Was your dance with Ei maybe an intervention, or a ritualistic territorialization to let everybody know that the queers were still the boss?

KH: Definitely the latter.

CS: Did any of the grounds people who helped create the pit come to the event?

KH: No, but I did invite them and pay them more than their wage.

CS: Mud wrestling at bard has become legendary. Do you have any plans for more?

KH: I hope to do one last mud wrestling event. Don’t know where yet.

CS: I can’t wait!

KH: Yeah me too.

CS: From what I’ve observed of your art practice, there is a deep sense of consistency. In other words, it is clear that you are always thinking and working no matter what your particular interests may be. In making a gesture towards the perhaps more underground and time-based interventions that have happened at Bard—and i’m thinking of Jay’s secret boathouse on the water below Blithewood—can you offer any comments on what it means to have a sustainable practice that may not find its way into official documentation?

KH: Well it’s difficult. I feel like part of my practice is organizing and creating events, bringing people together. It’s something i love to do, set up the parameters for, and that I do well. I love to get people excited and feel community.

Amy Sillman said that the mud wrestling event was the best thing that ever happened to that MFA program in its history. It really brought us together.

I contemplated for a long time about how to make event organizing a clear part of my art practice, but i gave up because it ruins the event.

If i get too conceptual and intentional it changes the tone, and that’s not fun.

I just like bringing people together and getting them excited or interested and spreading pleasure. But it’s a lot of work. It’s really hard to do. That mud wrestling even easily took me 40 hours of work, at the least.

CS: Did anyone tape it?

KH: Well i made up a rule at bard called “no fashion photography.” People didn’t really know how to take that and so it limited the documentation. One artist did ask me if she could videotape her wrestling match, which of course was fine. I would never stop a participant from taking photos or video. But I said no fashion photography so that people wouldn’t come just to fetishize and take photos

which after 3 years in Brooklyn did happen.

CS: Well it brings up the difference between the event and the spectacle.

KH: Also it’s too much pressure if too many people are taking photos, it changes the event. Yeah. Lauryn Siegel made a video at that mud wrestling event.

CS: Oh wow! I didn’t know such a document existed. Would you like to talk a little bit about the labor involved in building this project?

KH: Um, well I am very proud of my pit production. It evolved over the years

Basically I dig the hole first, then I remove any sharp or hard objects like rocks or sticks. Then I line it with a blue tarp and fill it. To fill it, I sift the dirt that was dug up, as long as it’s not too rocky and tedious. Also some of that dirt goes to build up the perimeter and cushion it. Then if I can I buy a few bags of soil from the garden store, just because people get really cut up and bloody from rocks and stuff in the dirt. Then I have a water hose and it’s basically on the whole time

so the pit gets soupier and soupier as the wrestling goes on. The hose is very important beccause you have to constantly spray wrestlers’ faces to get the mud off so they don’t suffocate.

CS: It sounds like a lot of responsibility.

KH: Well you don’t want to create something that hurts people who participate. I mean, inevitably there is pain from intense physical activity, ya know?

CS: Of course. But that’s part of the draw a little bit I imagine.

KH: Yeah the danger.

CS: Well, maybe we can leave it there, and perhaps chat more in the future? Thank you so much!

KH: Thank you!

[posted by Clark Solack]